One good thing about Shapiro!

[Bye!]

I have been bashing him about the moves he's made so far, but one comment he made, gives me a little hope.

He said he doesn't want to trade his everyday players for average pitchers. He would rather develop pitchers than give away players. He mentioned the Casey for Burba and the Giles for Rincon trades.

While I'm not pleased with the Alomar trade or the Guttierez signing, at least we know he realizes the above trades (Casey and Giles) were mistakes. That's something that Hart has never admitted to.

It remains to be seen if the Alomar deal will help in the future, but at least it wasn't for another warmed over pitcher that Hart seems to be infatuated with. He's already going that route in Texas.

I still believe that if Shapiro had hung tough with the Mets, he wouldn't have had to give up Bascik or Peoples, and probably could have forced them to take Cordero, or instead of Snyder, gotten their top prospect. Had he done that, I would have felt a lot better about this deal.

------------------

[The Genius]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bye!:

I still believe that if Shapiro had hung tough with the Mets, he wouldn't have had to give up Bascik or Peoples, and probably could have forced them to take Cordero, or instead of Snyder, gotten their top prospect. Had he done that, I would have felt a lot better about this deal.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As we used to say back in Ohio,
"It's last year's snow."

[Swanny]

The Giles for Rincon trade was insane but I actually understood the Casey for Burba trade.(At the time anyway)

------------------

[The Crank]

Why are some people so hung up on Shapiro giving up Bascik and Peoples? Bascik = Rigdon and Peoples = Scott Morgan.

------------------

[Swanny]

I don't think it's the end of the world that we lost those 2 guys but I don't think we needed to include any additional players besides Alomar for what we got in return. When hall of famers are traded it's usually not necessary to include anymore players. I guess that's just "the rookie" in Shapiro.

------------------

[srg]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Swanny:
I don't think it's the end of the world that we lost those 2 guys but I don't think we needed to include any additional players besides Alomar for what we got in return. When hall of famers are traded it's usually not necessary to include anymore players. I guess that's just "the rookie" in Shapiro.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The rookie in Shapiro? What does that mean? If you knew what you were talking about you would understand that Peoples and Bacsik both would have been taken off the 40 man roster but Shapiro found takers for both stiffs. What does Hall of Famers have to do with either of these career minor leaguers being shipped in this deal? That makes no sense.



------------------

[Wilhelm]

When Escobar and Lawton go into the HOF together in 2025 they'll Mark Shapiro for the opportunity to win those record breaking 7 WS titles in a row. Then we'll know what kind of deal that was.

Casey for Burba: Even trade. For pete's sake we needed those 15+ win/ 200 IP seasons more than a singles hitter.

------------------

[Bye!]

Bascik would have been kept on the 40 man roster. He was their minor league pitcher of the year this year.

I realize it wasn't a huge loss losing Peoples and Bascik, but if we still had them, they could have been packaged in another deal.

Yes Burba helped this team, but we didn't win the WS so how much did he help? For a stud like Casey we should have been able to get a younger pitcher. What none of you seem to get is that Burba's 15 victories a year, were largely a product of this team's offense.

All I'm really saying is, Shapiro didn't get as much as he could have for Alomar. Escobar is a huge gamble. Traber looks to be eventually (3 years?) a number 4 type pitcher. Lawton is a good (not great) player who has to prove he can play on grass as well as he did on carpet. Snyder isn't much more of a prospect than Peoples. He's a year or 2 younger with similar stats.

We gave up a future HOF player, who arguably may go down as the best all time 2B man in baseball. For what we got, that was all we should have given up.

------------------

[Hawaii007]

I really don't understand why anyone has a problem with the Casey-Burba trade. Burba won 15+ games the first two years he was here and was quite effective. He didn't have it this year, but we got two very good years out of a pitcher for a player where we did not have a spot for.


------------------

[srg]

Again, Mike Bacsik was going to be taken off the 40 man roster if the Alomar trade had not occured, he is not a prospect. That pitcher of the year award was meaningless and had nuthing to do with prospect status. Last year Jason Stanford won that award over CC Sabathia.Others who won that award are such notables as John Carter-Robert Pugmire-Mark Deschenes, Mike Soper.


Billy Taber is considered a front of the rotation pitcher.

I am still wondering what that better package was for Alomar. The Yankees would not have given Soriano straight up for Alomar.

------------------


[This message has been edited by srg (edited January 03, 2002).]